Every 3000th Post I......

Gees, I noticed last night that I was at 2999 posts here on Z Central Station. So I thought that 'Every 3000th Post' that I would take a moment and give some of my personal observations on Z scale. It also was about this time 10 years ago I began the hobby. From 1998, until now Z scale has grown tremendously. My first layout used the Marklin Freight House as a station! I couldn't find another one that would fit correctly on the 2'x3' layout I was building. I didn't know much about the internet in those days and didn't even know about model railroading sites on the computer. Today I can choose between 5 or 6 acceptable stations. I just received the Cheltenham Station from RSLaserKits today. It looks great. 10 years ago I had the MTL Mogul and 6 cars and that dorky center cupola caboose. Today, while MTL is out of the steamer business we now have the transition diesels to get us to the AZL offerings of the fairly modern SD70's. I know there are other diesels I didn't mention, but the point is the big growth of choices in the last 10 years. I think no one ever thought we would have a Cabforward in our scale a decade ago. Soon the Challenger steam loco will be out. Sadly these last two mentioned steamers are limited runs and priced out of reach for most of us. On the brighter side we have and are getting 85 ft. passenger cars. Alas, no Heavyweights. Modern modelers should be the most excited. Everyweek it seems there is a new intermodel something or rather, or more containers hit the market. The introduction of laser kits in the last few years has been fantastic for us. Slowing these kit builders are freeing us from the clutches of the popular ebay sellers. While I think the Gray Bros., for example, fit my era and the style I personally like, I'm having trouble paying over $125 for model buildings anymore. I predict that laser kits are the new wave for the next decade. They are affordable, easy to build, and look great. I'm currently building my third Micron Arts Pratt Throught Truss bridge. A fantastic product as all MArts products are. With more and more brass kits coming out from different sources Z scale is steadily advancing on the other scales. For the most part members of the Z scale community seem to hold themselves to a different standard of behavior than members of other scales. My compliments. We now have 3 primary sites for Z scale info. Each has it's plusses and minusses. Some members here are members on the other two sites, and visa-versa. Plenty of room for all of us. Looking at ZCS for moment, I notice that we have about 1100 hits a day on the site. Sadly our posting totals are about 10 to 15 a day. The other sites are down in Z participation as well,and that's too bad. Remember, it is you and me that make up the Z community and participating in your favorite site is important. A disturbing tread I've noticed in the last year is the tendency to skip giving comments/compliments to photos. I don't know if we are too busy, just don't care, or some other reason. It is disheartening to post a photo for a comment or general viewing and no one cares to leave a comment. Over on ZYahooGroup there has not been a congratulatory comment on any home page photo in the last year! Trust me, there have been some great photos on that home page, but no one seems to care. Comments on photos here are way down. Lastly, while none of us can predict the future, I feel that the next decade will see growth at about the same level as the last decade. I just hope I'm here to see it. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Jim,
I've noticed the drop off of comments ( here and the "other" sites as well). Some how we have to encourage the many lookerers to join in, in the forums and feel a part of Z Central. The more Zer's the "more better" ZCS will become as a source of information and friendship.
Brad, Jim, and others have worked hard long hours to upgrade and continue ZCS. Lets support them by using all the great features that this site offers.
Fred

Jim,

I drop in on different sites and see posts duplicated on the forums. I usually respond on ZCS, my preferred site. I figure people site surfing don't want to listen to my repeated prattle.
If a post is unique to a forum I will respond on that site.

When ZCS was down I noticed chatter on Trainboard increased, as it was the only way we could keep up on ZCS progress.

I am curious about those that post almost identical entries on different sites. Cut and paste?

Thanks,

JC

Hello Jim, Fred and Craig,

I think I'm not to far of if I believe that the three main sites you mean are ZCS, Trainboard and Z-Scale at Yahoo. Besides those I'm also registered at the German sites ZFE-Board and the 16Uhr50abPaddington list at Yahoo.de, where I'm also a moderator. This seems to be ridiculous, but until we can decide to meet at only one place we will have to live with this. And I don't see how this could happen, especially since there are much more places to meet in this wide wide web...

But then as it was mentioned before the most of the main posters are members in at least two or three of those places.

Another big reason for the decline in the positing average for me seems to be the factor that we have a relativly low number of really new z-scalers, or people who are interested in Z-scale. Therefore those people that meets at those places knew a lot of each other, and of Z-scale. And this leads to threds with a question and just one answer, but no really discussion about pros an contras. All those longer threads at all places are mostly smalltalk and issues beside themes that are important for newbies.

Therefore for me it seems to be important to go out and find new Z-scalers who are willing to meet our community, and share the spirit. This will also help the growth of the scale in the longer future.

Here are two pictures I made yesterday in Bremen, Germany at the Modellbau Show:

[img]http://www.zcentralstation.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/_rail_fanning_2/Uwe in Switzerland_14/kid_at_the_steel_forge_20081123_1720230618.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.zcentralstation.com/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/_rail_fanning_2/Uwe in Switzerland_14/kids_at_the_station_20081123_2044346014.jpg[/img]

so let's go out and have fun

I often watch the membership numbers when there is a large train show - such as NTS where Z was outstanding and won most of the coveted awards. The membership numbers did not increase
substantially. It seems here as on other groups, the few have to keep it going for the many. Each hobbiest has his own talents and views to bring to ZCS. Too bad so many are just onlookerers and won't contribute, but I too may fall in this catagory. I'm perplexed as to the number of comments for some pictures and the dearth for others- unknown if this is a clique or something else.
Wishing the best for ZSC
Fred

Fred, For sure if there is a clique then I'm neither in or aware of it. That said, I wonder if no one is commenting on your photos or anyone elses, could the reason be that photo comments are not counting toward posting totals like on the old site? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Jim,

I think the photo comments not counting towards post counts might affect some. Before ZCS changed there was a lot of friendly kidding between Tim and some one about hitting 1000 posts first. Also Tim has been out of town so that could be the problem LOL.
I think there seems to be some people still getting the hang of the new site, and that might be part of it.
I personally only have access to the internet at work and have been too busy at times to post. We are going into a busy time of year for many people and that might have some influence.
I'm not sure if Fred meant that certain posters receive a number of response and others not,
or if someone posts numerous photos and one out of so many receive comments. On multiple picture posts I'll pick one and my comment (in my mind) is meant for the set of photos.

Thanks,

JC

i worked my heart out for those posts,, i think yes it does make a difference on the picture write ups n comments. alot of people,,like me,, only go to one forum, just not enough time in a day for 4 or 5. and i dont kno of many of the other places. is there a place on this site that shows them?? mike

I think in the last couple of years, many things changed in our Scale. Z Scale was over 20 years just static with just one big manufacturer (Märklin) and most people were collectors. With the entry of AZL and MTL we got a lot of stunning Engines and Cars and more people try to have their own Layout or Module. Still most of the Z Scale Lovers are collectors and they don't share pictures or comments in the Forums. I know many collectors who can beat my collection with ease and they have never posted anything. The only indicator that some people spend a lot of money in Z is Ebay. Items from FR, AZL, Railex, Bahls, Westmodel and Kurt Lueck go's for the highest prices, sometimes twice as much as the catalog price. Strange.
Also the rest of the Forumusers are a bit spoiled with all those fantastic works from Rob, Chris, David F, Jim, Tim (just to name a few). If you eat everyday your favorite dish, then it doesen't smell that good anymore after some time
Last thing is of course more human nature, it's called envy and happens often everywhere, not just on our Hobby.

I can speak for no one but myself, especially since I only talk the folks here on ZCS and occasionally Trainboard. I know my postings have dropped off lately. Partly it is because of work and partly because I am getting used to the new site.

While it was fun to watch the post count go up, I never did post just to drive up the count. My count will go up slower because I mainly commented on photos and prefer to let those who know what they talk about handle the forums.

I think what could help would be some tutorials. I subscribe to Railroad Model Craftsman (and Z Track of course). RMC is great because they focus on kitbashing and scratchbuilding. They usually have a layout or 2, but mostly projects such as modeling a specific railcar or some fallen flag's unique engine. The problem is that while some of the techniques can be ported over to Z, most of the projects are HO. So the materials and supplies and suppliers are different because most do not make stuff for our scale. In that way, it drives us to innovate on our own, but at the same time it makes it intimidating to try some projects. This is especially true due to the small nature of the parts. This is where Z Track can come in and help out the hobby, but of course they need submissions in order to make it happen.

Just my thoughts,
Jeremy
who has no relation to either RMC or ZT except as a subscriber.

Well I think we'll have to admit that Z is an aquired taste. From the few exhibitions I visit I get the impression that there is a bit more interest the last years. But it is still very quiet.

There was a dutch Z forum but it folded after a few years because lack of members and participation. So I'm glad I found this forum. OTOH I follow about 8 forums daily. This means I only go hunting for other forums when one folds or becomes "unproductive". But as I have been long time away from Z I'll ask a few questions to keep you busy when I find the time to formulate them.

As for kitbashing and scratchbuilding in Z... I do a bit of scratchbuilding in gauge 1 and find that even more than small enough. With or without tutorials I'm not going to risk my mental health trying it with Z.

Posts and post counts ; who cares . It has no meaning at all.
I think our forum is cooking along just fine .
Thanks for all the work Brad and moderators.
.... and there is a photo gallery; and you can post comments.(thanks Socalz44 ) I all ways find something new and interesting when visting Z Central.
Todays world is full of information, by the time you have a look at Z Central, Trainboard etc, your up to date in the Z world.
To me the best aspect in the forums is the search function/archives. It's all there.
Z is growing, getting bigger:lol: , more products , and forums in my opinion are the rock on which it is growing.
With new members; you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.For new members it is all here, come in and participate or miss out on meeting the community and new friends.

p.s. posts. i just never look at the numbers , i look at the poster. i like your posts Socalz44 and now its 3000. a big contribution to the forum and z world, congrates cobber.

Rowan, Who cares about posting numbers? I guess a lot of people do. We turned off the Top 50 Posters list once on the old site and you would have thought the world was coming to an end! So regardless of motives we still have posting totals. They are less visible today and I'm surprise no one has asked about that. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

I'm not concerned about post counts. But a pat on the back sure helps- especially when long tedious hours are spent on a project-- or comments are made to improve said projects.
Some comments on fotos may answer questions- or explain the project, or be a catalyst for someone to try a similar effort.
Fred

Earlier in this thread I wrote about Kids being the future. At the show in Bremen I made a video, which a friend from the ZFE now stored at YouTube:

Kids watching trains going by...

For me it seems to be very important to show kids our hobby. Unfortunately they mostly don't know trains from their personal life. Or if they knew it it's the subway in their city. But on each longer journey they are taken by car. I still remember going to our family vacation by train. Us that did mean my parents with four kids age from 12 to 4. We were going to Denmark for a three week vacation in a cottage around easter time. That did mean we had to bring all our clothes (for warm and cold weather), the bedsheets and towels and other stuff with us. And we had to change trains three times on this journey. I'm wondering who's willing to do something like this today...

I also remember when we took my son while 5 years old to a daytrip to Bremen going by train pulled by a steam engine. I still can see him when the big engine came into the station in Hamburg...

If we lose the kids we also lose our future, and not only in modelrailroading.

Hello Jim,
Socalz44 wrote:

...posting totals. They are less visible today and I'm surprise no one has asked about that.

I'm getting up to the current flow again slowly, since I was busy with other tasks lately... it's X-mas soon... ...and no I'm not Santa (...yet, my beard isn't white and long enough for that... )

Am I concerned about posting numbers? Well, I don't know really, but sure I followed the list on the old site. Now we only can see the top 20, and that leaves a lot of posters somewhat in the dark. A top 50 like on the old site would also show an normal flow of post. After that I believe that one could see a relativly strong influence of the rank numbers by members that fall behind, because they have stopped posting at some point, or even never did any posting at all. On the other hand new members are rising faster through the list because of those silent members (I don't know the English word for those, and I won't use the German one here... ).

But then I like the stats for popular threads, and of popular users mesured by views of their profile.

So I would like to see a top 50 again, but the world won't end if it stays at the top 20...



...at least not until I really look like Santa, then I would have to reconsider my list again...

Uli and Jim

I can't speak for others, but my posting has definatly dropped off a bit in the past year. I dont contribute it to the new site, but rather to the point that just about every subject has been covered here on ZCS, Trainboard, or Yahoo. Frequently i find forum topics that have been covered before, and other members doing a great job of directing newer members to the info they are looking for. So there rarely is a topic i feel i should chime in on. This does not stop me from dropping in here to ZCS and Trainboard daily to check on things, only i find my desire to post new info very sparingly.

Post numbers: I'll admit that there was a time that i was caught up in the whole post numbers game. Some how i thought that if i was one of the top posters, it would make me feel more respected, and give some sort of credibilty to the effort i put into my layout and trains. Of course i was wrong, but it made me feel good about myself all the same. In the past year i have been recognized and awarded by my fellow club members, and folks of different scales at our local train shows, and this has been more humbling than i could have ever imagined. I now prefer to silently go about my layout work, and to let my fellow local modelers and club members be my critics, as well as just plain old pleaseing myself with the results.

So like anything, there will be new members like i was a few years ago, that will post a lot, and be very involved with the Z sites, and there will be some that will gravitate away from the sites as their confidence in modeling leads them away.

All in all, i would prefer to NOT sound like a self-absorbed idiot, that is mearly looking to post comments in an effort to elivate my persoal feelings, and instead be a qualty contributer to our chosen scale and hobby.

Tony B...
Wasatch Z ClubB)

Tony, Well said. I'm not sure I can pin point and self absorbed idiots on this site. There are a couple question marks on the other two sites possibly. I never thought about maybe all the subjects have been covered. Interesting. I think it was Brad's hope that we would "refill" the Forums with new postings. We do have many new members who seem to be stepping up and that is good. Question: What problems are you having with photo posting? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Hello Tony,

zmon wrote:

...but rather to the point that just about every subject has been covered here on ZCS, Trainboard, or Yahoo. Frequently i find forum topics that have been covered before, and other members doing a great job of directing newer members to the info they are looking for. So there rarely is a topic i feel i should chime in on. This does not stop me from dropping in here to ZCS and Trainboard daily to check on things, only i find my desire to post new info very sparingly.

as I wrote earlier in this thread our problem seems to be the relativly slow number of new members.

Since Z-scale is a somewhat small scale...
...well not only in size...
...we need the internet as a way of communication. I'm wondering where Z would be today without the internet.

For myself speaking, I knew about the existence of Z for a very long time, even not being involved with modelrailroading at all. But I only knew from Märklin. That was what I could see in a small corner in the window of our local shop. Then at some point we (my wife and me) decided to start into modelrailroading, and we did choose Z because of the space available in our home. And, well also because, it looked like it was something a bit different from the mainstream in modelrailroading...

Then I started to look out for information on the web, because I couldn't find any information except the Maerklin catalogue in our local hobbyshop. I found some groups and websites concerning Z. Later on I also found a group near my place, and I got invited to join them.

At that time there still weren't to much of small manufacturers around. Or at least there weren't much info on those to find. But then just within a very few years the situation changed. I got the impression that with the developing of the use and the speed of the internet and it's access a burst od activity started. Some people created incredible things. Some of those people stayed private, and sold only a little if anything to others, but some evolved into small firms, that served more people with their things. Also here the internet helped, because now it was possible to create something according to the needs of the people, because it was possible to ask about those needs in advance and start from there, instead of creating something without knowing if anyone else would want it.

The only downside is that some things are only available for a short time, and one don't always have the money around at the right moment, or one doesen't knew that he will need an item later when it is gone from the market. But also this is changing for the better lately.

But for all this positive development there is still the situation that we are a small community that is in contact within itself. Every new Z-scaler first has to find the internet and the information available there. Also people mostly first start to decide on Z-scale, and then look out for the web, and they don't find Z on the web, and then decide to start themself with Z.

Therefore I believe it is important to go out an show people what can be done in Z out there in the real life at shows and other opportunitys.

The only thing we don't must forget is to show also how one can start in Z. I've seen a lot of incredible details in Z, but for any newbie it seems like a Mount Everest to climp to reach the spheres were the community seems to live. Show them the hill at their backyard that then after it is climbed can grow to their personal Mount Everest over time.

I'm still trying to get on top of my hill in my backyard...

Fortunatly I knew that the people on those boards are in the very majority very helpful with any question that comes up. But this is something that a new member first has to discover. If one just has a look into the board he or she might get scared of the level that is shown.

Socalz44 wrote:

Tony, Well said. I'm not sure I can pin point and self absorbed idiots on this site. There are a couple question marks on the other two sites possibly. I never thought about maybe all the subjects have been covered. Interesting. I think it was Brad's hope that we would "refill" the Forums with new postings. We do have many new members who seem to be stepping up and that is good. Question: What problems are you having with photo posting? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Hey Jim,

The only idiot i was refering to way of course meself!!! LOL:P

I agree with Ulie 100%, that this site and the others like it are insturmental in helping new Z scalers see the posibilities of what can be done in Z scale. We all have to remember that not so long ago, our scale was considered a novilty item, and refered to as cute more than as a scale model. These perceptions have been changing, and we are all part of helping that cause along..... of coures the work of a few of the guys on this site have helped even more.

You make a good point Ulie, that the internet is very powerfull in helping new Z scalers find info. I can attest to the fact that prior to my finding this site and the others, that my knowledge of Z scale was strictly Marklin. Through this site i have been able to break out of my old ways, and start/build the North American railroad of my dreams in z scale. If it were not for the help and info on this site and the others, i would most likely still be stuck in old analoge DC and Marklin lobster claw couplers..LOL

Anyway, great site as alaways, and i'll try and make an effort to post words of encouragement to all the new Z scalers that are joining us for the first time.

Tony B...
Wasatch Z ClubB)