Question Rokuhan Track survey

Rokuhan has received several requests for three wire control from
various sources for their turnouts.

Questions
1. is this because some are resisting change?
2. is it because new users are not familiar with the control system?
Would a DCC turnout control module be desirable?
3. Would a tutorial on how to put to-gether discreet components to
allow one to build your own custom control panel be useful?
4. Would you be happy with external switch machines like on Marlin and
Micro Trains to get three wire control and twin coil turnout motors?
5.Is their resistance to using the components of a plug and play track system?
6. is this because you want to do you own wiring?
7.Do you want a blind track feed point from below the road bed like
those found on Kato unitrack?
8.Do you need insulated rail joiners so you can do block wiring?
9. with the new turnout controller which can be feed from AC auxiliary
power from your existing power pack is there still a need to go to 3
wire control?( going to wire control could mean no under the road bed
turnout motors)
please e-mail me direct until there is a request to see the answers
on line. It will help me tabulate the answers if you answer in point
form using the same numbers as I have.
10. is there a need to document how to use slow motion acutators to
control these switches?

cheerz Garth garth.a.hamilton @ gmail.com

Garth... Are we supposed to contact Rokuhan directly with our answers?

Hi ALex no reply direct to me if you will garth.a.hamilton at gmail.com

garthah wrote:

Hi ALex no reply direct to me if you will garth.a.hamilton at gmail.com

Okay, Garth... you have my answers. Thank you!

Hi Garth,

I am sending these answers directly to your email address for use in your tabulations but I think it’s a good idea to answer the questions in the forum as well…

It’s difficult for me to understand why people would want to change one of the greatest things to come along to the Z community since its creation... great working turnouts with invisible mechanisms!

I personally have nothing that I would want “changed” per se, except that I could use individual switches for the 15 turnouts on my new layout now, and not later this year (it’s my understanding that the switches won’t be out until later in the year).

Because of this”delay” in availability, I need to hand-make 15 switches, or order switch kits from a third party, namely the only place I know of personally that makes switches for Single Coil Turnouts, and that would be Ken Stapleton’s switch model #751K at “Ken’s Hobby Electronic’s Page” (located at www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/Index.html). HOWEVER, I can see no real advantage for using his switches over simply making one’s own from a DPDT center-off momentary contact toggle switch, except to save on making two solders one would need to do making their own, and that his switches make adding a directional LED very easy.

Now then, even though I don’t see a need for a change to the switch from a two wire to a three wire, Garth you asked A LOT more than this in your post. In fact, I was a bit confused by your post in the first place. Are you suggesting you (or Rokuhan) have had suggestions for a 3 wire switch, OR a 3 wire turnout? You started off with the title question “Rokuhan has received several requests for three wire control from various sources for their turnouts.” And then you went to the questions, but a lot of the questions could really be about more than 2 or 3 wire switches.

Rokuhan has received several requests for three wire control from various sources for their turnouts.

1. is this because some are resisting change?

Yes, I believe some people will always resist change, especially when one remembers that a lot of these model railroaders are getting rather old and feeble, both in mind (it’s difficult for them to learn anything new) and in body (their eyes and fingers don’t work the way they used to and doing any wiring is difficult for them). Also, I’m also guessing that Americans will resist more than the Japanese because I believe there are younger model railroaders in Japan and the young take up change easier.

2a. is it because new users are not familiar with the control system?

Yes, I believe that a few videos aren’t enough to sway the masses. It’s going to take a little time and some seeing Rokuhan in action at train shows.

2b. Would a DCC turnout control module be desirable?

I’m planning on switching to DCC sometime in the (near?) future. I plan on wiring my new (Rokuhan track) layout with DCC in mind. It would be VERY helpful to know if there is anything I would need to do differently because it uses Rokuhan track. So I would say the answer is YES, a DCC turnout control module would be very desirable!

3. Would a tutorial on how to put to-gether discreet components to allow one to build your own custom control panel be useful?

I believe that David K Smith has already explained how to make one’s own switches (jamesriverbranch.net/clinic_4.htm), what more could be needed except for Rokuhan to validate his work more and/or to copy what he has explained and add it to their website.

4. Would you be happy with external switch machines like on Marlin and Micro Trains to get three wire control and twin coil turnout motors?

Excuse me but, Hell No! I switched to Rokuhan track and have purchased over $800.00 in track for use on my new personal layout simply BECAUSE the Rokuhan turnouts switch mechanisms were hidden. I had always planned on a layout with a large number of turnouts but held off because I didn’t want to bother with 15 under table switches just to hid them. If it wasn’t for Rokuhans hidden mechanisms I wouldn’t have bothered to switch to a whole new track system or taken a second look at Rokuhan in the first place!

5. Is their resistance to using the components of a plug and play track system?

What resisitance? With the use of it’s screw-on plugs, Marklin Z scale has been “plug and play” forever. Rokuhan’s is simply a slicker looking system.

6. is this because you want to do you own wiring?

Why would one doing their own wiring cause them to want three wires? If they knew how to do wiring, they wouldn’t need three wires in the first place.

7. Do you want a blind track feed point from below the road bed like those found on Kato unitrack?

Yes, I believe EVERYONE wants a blind track feed. That was the whole idea in hiding the turnout mechanisms wasn’t it, to make the track more (to use a word I immensely dislike using) prototype? A blind track feed is just another step in that direction – HOWEVER, the track would also need a way for topside track feed as it has now for those that don’t wish to bottom feed.

8. Do you need insulated rail joiners so you can do block wiring?

YES! AND ALSO replacement metal joiners!!!!! I’ve already got two pieces of track that are unusable (well one piece if I combine these), because when the track was taken apart, the plastic joiner pulled out from the wrong side of the track and the little metal joiner went flying to God knows where! I mean, I can’t understand why these items weren’t made available from the get go?????

9. with the new turnout controller which can be feed from AC auxiliary power from your existing power pack is there still a need to go to 3 wire control? (going to wire control could mean no under the road bed turnout motors)

Honestly, I can’t see why people want 3 wire control????? They MUST be missing understanding something, (or am I), but what? Perhaps it’s the fact that Rokuhan DOESN’T presently HAVE ANY individual switches available for those of us that wish to use our present (non-Rokuhan) controllers? And perhaps because of this, they don’t want to, or are unable to, build their own switches from scratch? Garth, (and Rokuhan), please, before Rokuhan retreats back to the stone ages, understand that since a lot is promised, but yet isn’t available, people are trying cobble together a Rokuhan track system without all of the complete system being available, (or understood yet).

10. is there a need to document how to use slow motion actuators to control these switches?

I’m sure the “rivet counters” would be very happy using the more prototype (there’s that word again) speed switches, but since these Rokuhan switches use rare earth magnets to “snap” back and forth as the polarity changes, it seems pretty obvious that it can be done by simply just removing the magnets and attaching the actuator arm to the switches point actuating lever. (Except maybe to tell people to be very careful with any unused rare earth magnets… or they could just donate them to me).

Hope this helps,
Joe

Joe... tell us how you "really" feel.

On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Garth Hamilton
<garth.a.hamilton@...> wrote:
> Rokuhan has received several requests for three wire control from
> various sources for their turnouts.

The consensus so far is Rokuhan is on the right track with what they
are doing and no one wants to return to twin coil 3 wire switch
control. There were some wants that filtered through
1. hidden track feed from below road bed so no wires on layout surface.
replacement metal rail joiners, replacement roadbed joiners, Insulated
rail joiners.
bridges and piers
I did find some answers to switch control using other than what
Rokuhan is supplying.

for DCC from Digitrax the DS51K1 MSRP $14.99
www.digitrax.com/prd_statdec_ds51k1.php there are other options
for boards that will control more than one switch at DSIgitrax.
Manuals are available on line for download in PDF format.
You could use the switch extension cable to provide a socket and pig
tails to get a plug in connection to this module from the turnout and
a track feed cable to get a connection to the track to connect to
this module.

For those wanting to build a custom control panel Stapleton
Electronics supplies parts kits and completely assemble modules to
control bipolar single coil switch motors for about $8.00 for fully
assembled module plus shipping. Here you just need to cut off the
modular plug and solder the wire leads to the board. This board also
includes drive for LED position indicators for the turnouts.

www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM
Ken Stapleton Electronics also build a module that can be mounted in a
control panel which allows for control of a bi-polar single coil
switch machine with indicating LEDs at $8.00 per unit. igitrax



cheers Garth

garthah wrote:

www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM
Ken Stapleton Electronics also build a module that can be mounted in a
control panel which allows for control of a bi-polar single coil
switch machine with indicating LEDs at $8.00 per unit.

Although the link on his website directs to a page for the 751D.HTM, the switch you would want is the 751K (he doesn't have a page for this switch). He, Mr. Stapleton, also doesn't appear to have a shopping cart on his website. To order you must email him at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. He accepts check, international money order or can send you a Paypal invoice.

As for the price, in an email on 5/29/11 he told me;

"The 751K's sell for $12.50 each. I have 5 pack and 10 pack DIY kits available also. Each kit is supplied with 1 fully assembled unit and either 4 or 9 unsaasembled units. The cost of kits is $79/10 pack and $45/5 pack."

He did not mention shipping costs or if they are included. So the price would be around 8 bucks each in a 10 pack KIT form (his website just makes it appear they are $8.00 each indivdually).

Unless one is really good at soldering I WOULD NOT suggest the Kits. Look at the page for the 751D and that should give you an idea of what is involved in putting one of these together.

And unless you really need the directional LED connection option (it doesn't come with LEDs remember), one would be better off simply making their own switch with a DPDT momentary switch which one can get here search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=450-1535-ND for $4.40 each (even less in quantity). And these can be found for even less elsewhere if you want to hunt around (just make sure it's a momentary switch).

My recommendation? Buy an empty plastic box, or piece of sheet metal/brass/stainless, etc. the size needed for the number of switches you need (think of how you want to mount the switches to your layout, or however you want to do it, and that will help you figure out what you need). Then order the DPDT momentary switches from a supplier like Digikey. Wire them as DKS suggests and you’re done at a fraction of the cost of Stapletons switches (unless of course you NEED the LED option). You can get a low voltage walwart (AC to DC adapter) at Radio Shack for about $1.50 (www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049709) and daisy chain it to all of the switches you make.

Joe