AZL Challengers are released !!!

Rob Kluz will give you more info BUT I CAN'T WAIT: I got my order in !

(from Trainboard)

First of all, please visit ztrack.com and later americanzline.com for detailed release information. Actual release of the sets is mid April.
In short we are offering the Challengers as follows:

UP Challenger sets:
AZL 17051-1, Coal Challenger 3942, CA-3 Caboose (red), 12 x 40' PFE Wooden Reefers
AZL 17051-2, Coal Challenger 3950, CA-3 Caboose (red), 12 x 40' PFE Wooden Reefers
AZL 17051-3, Coal Challenger 3960, CA-3 Caboose (yellow), 12 x 40' PFE Wooden Reefers
AZL 17051-4, Coal Challenger 3968, CA-3 Caboose (yellow), 12 x 40' PFE Wooden Reefers
AZL 17053, Oil Challenger 3985, CA-3 Caboose (yellow), 12 x 40' PFE Wooden Reefers
Price per set: $1911

Single Challengers:
AZL 17052-1, UP Oil Challenger 3977 (two tone grey w/ smoke deflectors)
AZL 17052-2, UP Oil Challenger 3981 (two tone grey w/ smoke deflectors)
AZL 17054-1, D&RGW Coal Challenger 3800
AZL 17054-2, D&RGW Coal Challenger 3802
AZL 17054-3, D&RGW Coal Challenger 3803
Price single: $1499

Prices do not include S&H and credit card fees (check is an option). All prices are Ztrack subscriber prices and will be valid until the end of NTS 2010. Numbers are limited.

Surprise item? Yes, it is our new brass UP CA-3 Steel Caboose! The CA-3 were produced in 1942 and is a perfect match with the Challengers.

Sincerely,

Hans Riddervold

Are these Challengers actually able to pull the 12 reefers plus the brass caboose?

Or... Is this just another $1,500.00 piece of brass art work in motion?

Don't get me wrong... I think it looks great. Just wondering about it's real performance.

The Challenger has traction tires installed, so three driving axles give enough muscle to pull probably 25 or even more cars. I think AZL made a good compromise to achieve acceptable power results for this stunning model.

Lajos:)

Jim, call Lajos. I think somebody hack into his computer.

TechRep wrote:

Are these Challengers actually able to pull the 12 reefers plus the brass caboose?

Or... Is this just another $1,500.00 piece of brass art work in motion?

Don't get me wrong... I think it looks great. Just wondering about it's real performance.

Alex, why don't you buy one from me and find out?
Loren

tealplanes wrote:

Alex, why don't you buy one from me and find out?
Loren

Loren... Why don't you buy one and let me know.

TechRep wrote:

tealplanes wrote:

Alex, why don't you buy one from me and find out?
Loren

Loren... Why don't you buy one and let me know.

I;m going to, but I'm going to keep my secrets all to myself.....that is unless you want to buy into my secrets club.......only $9.95 per month dues:laugh:

Hey, just been on Ztrack and zlines and can't see any picures - any one got a web page for pictures

www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=97258&page=4

tealplanes wrote:

I'm going to, but I'm going to keep my secrets all to myself... that is unless you want to buy into my secrets club... only $9.95 per month dues:laugh:

Unless your club includes a secret decoder ring and a monthly gift for those dues... not happening.

Jim, call Lajos. I think somebody hack into his computer

My nice, kind and gentle side did it... Seriously, there is no point keep hitting the dead horse. I'm sure AZL was in the advanced stage of design and budgeting of the Challenger, so the more powerful version could delay the release and push up the price substantially. They've learned from the "underpowered" nature of previous steamers to come up with this fair compromise. It's their business, their money, they know how to run a business. The most important is the appearance of the locomotive, and it's right on. After seeing one inside, I can decide what to do, but at least one of them will be part of my small roster. It's the Challenger, it's part of America. I think apple pie comes in third after the V8 engine and the Challenger...
One more note, even a prediction. The Big Boy will be an injection molded shell with heavy metal chassis, all drivers will be powered via a powerful motor in the tender, and the price going to be under $400.00.

Lajos

Lajos, I hope I live that long. How can a Big Boy be made so cheaply? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

The selling price would be lower due to injecton molding, but because of the molding costs, AZL would need to sell a lot of them and at $400 they could count on my dollars helping to pay for the mold.

Let's face it, we want all sorts of steam........right?

Loren

The question to ask is, can the Z scale market support a mass-produced Big Boy? Except for those few layouts big enough for one of these monsters, this would mostly be a "mantelpiece" model. They're good for shows, where they can stretch their legs and catch the eyes of onlookers. But how many of these could we possibly hope to move? Does this serve the market need enough to warrant the expense of manufacturing one?

Serious Z scale modelers interested in the steam era will need much, much more than a couple of hulking articulateds. Granted, big locos, particularly articulateds, are going to be the best performers: they have enough weight and wheels that a lot of Z scale's performance issues go away. The sad irony is that serious steam modelers don't need many articulateds; they need everyday workhorses: Consolidateds, Pacifics, Mikados, Prairies, and so on; plus, they need switchers, from 0-4-0s up to 0-8-0s. Maybe a modeler is interested in earlier steam; they'll need 4-4-0s, ten-wheelers and high-wheelers. Geared locomotives, anyone? Highly doubtful; it took N scale nearly 40 years to get exactly one mass-produced Shay.

The major problem is that all of these smaller locomotives present big performance issues to overcome. That's why I've been madly buying Japanese Mikados. I have a dual-purpose initiative: first, create models I'm interested in having; and second, demonstrate to the manufacturers that smaller American steam locomotives can be mass-produced in Z scale that also happen to perform well. I took one of my new Mikados for a spin the other night, and I was seriously impressed. Tenshodo has started writing a whole new chapter for Z scale.

But this is all academic. And it's a tough issue to get a handle on, because it's almost impossible to come up with reliable metrics for such a tiny market. I'm not trying to get all doom-and-gloom here; just trying to deal with the realities.

Dave,
Unlike some of the early white settlers who spoke with a forked tongue, you do say things that are very valid.

True, not many modelers will need a round house full of large steam poking their noses out the round house doors or just sitting on the tracks, though back when I was a kid, I'd see about a dozen good size steam sitting there in Eugene, hissing and impressing the heck out of me at all of 4'8" at the time of my early visits. Those 60" or larger drivers were mighty tall to my way of thinking.

We would need many different types like you mentioned, but I'm hurt you didn't mention my favorite, the Berkshire. I forgive you......but only this once;)

I believe as the scale grows in acceptance, we will see more large home layouts, maybe entire attics or basement layouts dedicated to Z and then of course the large locos would find welcome passage on large scale radius.

I think we will see larger layouts sprouting up frequently as more folks discover Z scale, and as a result the demand for more varied motive power will grow also.
Sadly, you are correct about the performance issues.

Until some millionaire decides to produce his own line of steam, which probably could be engineered so that performance would be suitable, the steam will be few and far between. I only wish I were that millionaire:(

But with the introduction of the Tenshodo steam I certainly agree with you that the Japanese may well have opened a whole new book, not just chapter.

So, though doom and gloom are somewhat of a reality presently, we must press on with all possible speed.

More power Scotty..........

Loren

tealplanes wrote:

I only wish I were that millionaire

You and me both.

Sorry I missed the Berk. There were so many darned names to keep track of--

www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.shtml

If someone wanted to get into producing steam, there's no shortage of starting points!

The irony about the Big Boy is that more models were produced than real ones--only 25 Big Boys were built. And, they only ran on a portion of one railroad. So, unless you're modeling that part of the U.P., owning one is most likely a function of the "I just want one" effect. At least the Challenger was found on other railroads, so they make more sense to offer.

Me, I don't get the appeal of the Big Boy, but to each his own. I'll take a Consolidation, Forney or Shay any day.

A quick update. We are working on adding a subscriber order page for the Challenger. This will be up on Ztrack.com in the next week. I will have an announcement once this page is up and running.

If anyone wants to order before hand, please drop us an email at: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

At this time, it is reservation only. No payment is required. The pricing as quoted applies to Ztrack Magazine subscribers only.

Rob

A Berkshire would be great. I would love to see one for the Nickel Plate to go with the AZL Geeps.

Berkshire........YES ! Love the looks of the loco. Want one, want one, want one.

Gee, do you think anyone knows the type of loco I want?
Loren

If AZL came out with a Clinchfield single stack version of the Challenger similar to what NP and SP&S ran, I would probably buy one. But, while my layout is 13' X 7', I don't know how it would do on the 195 curves that will be hidden. It would look nice in the Wishram yard though, and SP&S ran them up the Gorge from Vancouver well into the 1950s.

John